“I humbled that there are three unreformed institutions in Poland: PZPN in front of Bono, PKP and the Catholic Church”

This is a refreshed version of the interview with Father Paweł Gużyński, which we published on December 24, 2018, available here.

What is the greatest sin of modern football?

– Excessive commercialization, and hence the dark side of profit and money. The noble rivalry that Pierre de Coubertin ascribed to the idea of ​​the Olympic Games has become marginal. I don’t intend to condemn players to poverty, but football as show business seems to be more and more like wrestling. I am deeply affected by the corruption of footballers like Franck Ribery or who buy sexual services from a 17-year-old prostitute. It arouses my objection and disgust. Many footballers, after retiring from their careers, lose a fortune within a few years, drowning cash and themselves in alcohol, gambling, sex and drugs. You can’t see it through your fingers.

Their marriages often fall apart too.

– The stories of players like Adriano i show that if you earn a lot of money at a young age by dedicating yourself only to playing football, your personality and humanity stop developing and you remain a teenager or a mental child for the rest of your life. The football genius of Maradona was paid for with just such a thing.

Admires Father Cristiano Ronaldo?

– I have a problem with him because I do not like the so-called stallions.

But he, in spite of a lot of money, did not lose the will to develop. She treats him obsessively.

– Perhaps it is professionalism and a genius like Michael Jackson, some kind of pursuit of something impossible to achieve? I was not crazy about the joy when Cristiano joined, which I support a lot.

For a father, a footballer has to be crystalline on and off the pitch? The fact that his three children were born by a surrogate affects how his father perceives him as a footballer?

– Each of us is bound by humanity, a certain level of it. It’s nice if someone trains to be deeply human every day, but regardless of whether we are on the bench or hardly anyone knows about us, the requirements for our humanity are the same. Various examples show that it is difficult to be a phenomenon in some field and not to go crazy about it. Whether in church or in politics … Often genius will make us rich faster than maturity.

Does your father agree that football is like a religion?

– Better to say that football is addictive. However, the similarities are puzzling. After all, fans at Stadio San Paolo can hold a picture of the saint in one hand and a picture of Diego Maradona in the other. There is a kind of confusion of orders. Human religiosity has always been characterized by idolatry. People really want to give God some shape to make it easier to touch.

Hence the church of Diego Maradona followers?

– Exactly – it results from this need, but the use of the name “church” here is an abuse. Fan club, go ahead, but no more.

It just goes a little further. There are no ten commandments in the fanclub, no baptism, no one counts the time from the birth of his idol.

– If you take it seriously, this is pure madness. But on the other hand, even Himmler built the temples of the Third Reich. Reality hates emptiness, also the religious one.

But we are talking about a completely different level of threat. There is a lot of room for fun and irony in the Maradona church.

– From the perspective of the spiritual life understood not only in Christian terms, one of the most serious sins is idolatry. The Decalogue says at the beginning: “You will have no other gods before me.” Therefore, if someone worships someone or something that is not God, he is far from living and true God. Is it possible to do such things just for fun?

Today we often call a footballer divine.

– If it is only a synonym of genius, a distinguishing feature of a particular, then no problem. Nevertheless, it is difficult not to remember that, for example, on the orders of Jim Jones, specific people founded the Jonestown settlement in Guyana. Likewise, Maradona’s “hand of God” balances on the verge between heaven and hell.

Then who is your father’s favorite footballer?

– The ranking will be dominated by Italians. Roberto Baggio,. Also Gianluca Pessotto, whose playing I admired and whose personal drama I experienced very much. After Pessotto’s career ended, he attempted suicide. He had to face the descent from the pedestal and it turned out that he had nothing to lean on. He came out of it, and his return to his spiritual roots helped him.

The father does not mention anyone who plays today. Doesn’t the current generation impress my father?

– Until recently, he played for Juventus. I still see more sport than stardom in his game and behavior. I like footballers with a soul. I have the impression that it is getting harder and harder for me to find them.

Didier Drogba can be considered a footballer with a soul. After the Champions League final in Munich against Bayern, he admitted that before the last corner he said to God that if he really exists, he must now reveal himself. He scored a goal, ran to the flag, looked up at the sky and thought God really was at the game. Your father’s opinion was?

– That’s an interesting example. Religions are governed by the rule of hierophany, or revelation. In a specific situation, everything in this world can become her tool. If we examine different religions, we find surprising sacred things in their rituals. In one of the Asian religions, for example, the droppings of an armadillo are set in gold, because once “god spoke through them”. This individual experience, however, cannot be understood as meaning that now every footballer will talk as it works. That would be total nonsense. God, for reasons that he knows, lets someone know about himself, reveals himself.

So there was a purpose.

– Easily ascribing to an event this special property, which is the action of God’s providence, should be treated with caution. In the Catholic Church, no one is required to believe in private revelation, even of those officially sacred. Drogba may have understood something religiously because of what happened to him on the pitch. And that’s it.

Drogba returned to his penalty area in extra time and fouled Ribery. He turned to God once more: why does this always happen to me ?!

– Obviously Drogba as a great footballer is not an equally good theologian, if he tries to involve God in his activities.

God does not interfere with football?

– Who wouldn’t want to have Him on their side to win !? But sport is fun. It gives you rest and teaches you many things. Among other things, respect for noble competition. Both the own and the foreign categories should not have much to say here. My brothers do not understand how I can support Italy in the Poland – Italy match … We support according to sympathy, and respect is due to everyone who competes by the rules. It is phenomenal in sport that everyone can cheer for whomever they want. You don’t have to live in Madrid to be in favor, or in Manchester to support United.

But my father says about the clubs. This is something other than representation.

More than a Pole, I try to be a human being and a Christian who, above all, is bound by the commandment of love for my neighbor, and not by geographic or genetic location. That is why I direct my sports sympathies towards teams representing a specific artistry and philosophy of the game.

Where did these Italians come from?

– The shortest – by playing for Juventus. In those days, Boniek was our window to the west. In this way, I started to be interested in Italian football, which was additionally strengthened when Polish football became a thoroughly provincial dig.

He was the father of a defensive midfielder in Elana Toruń, who played at the 2nd and 3rd league levels. For footballers, calling usually gives such a motivational kick. Interrupted your father’s career?

– It’s a more complex story. I don’t know if I would have enough football talent. At some point, I started to get more involved in opposition activities, and that was the most important thing for me. So is intellectual and spiritual development.

Father announces Juventus matches in the parish announcements. For what?

– It is good to send people a signal that the priest is not someone detached from reality, someone without mundane passions. In the book of Hebrews it says: “There is no high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but who is tested in every way as we are, except sin.” Jesus, then, was like us in all things except sin. This is the prototype of the priesthood. So a priest shouldn’t pretend to be somehow superhuman. It worked great in Poznań. A little insertion about it was enough, and the guys were smiling from ear to ear right away.

There are negative reactions from parishioners? Maybe someone does not buy it at all or is a Napoli or Milan fan and does not want it?

“There are times when someone just doesn’t understand what I’m talking about.” Once upon a time I only mentioned that it is known what will happen on Tuesday at 8:45 pm. It was probably about the semi-final match between Juve and Monaco. After the mass a lady comes to me in the sacristy and asks what is this special event that she does not know about yet. I did not even have time to speak, and the other faithful have already explained her. Is it not appropriate? I do not do this during the liturgy only in announcements, so I do not defile the sacredness of prayer.

Fr. Artur Filipiak stated that the apostles are such scouts of the Lord Jesus. They walked around and persuaded people to join his club. It’s harder to be such a scout today?

– These scouts use tools that are not adapted to the circumstances. For example, my attention is drawn to the use of a hermetic language, especially by the highest church dignitaries. It is also difficult to explain to many young priests today that the era of beginning sermons with baroque phrases such as “beloved in Christ the Lord, brothers and sisters, dear worshipers of God’s mercy has long passed.” When I say try differently, I hear “but why, what’s wrong with that ?!”.

At first glance, the father’s passion is unusual. A monk, a priest … But if you look like this: Pope Francis is an honorary member of San Lorenzo, Benedict XVI kept his fingers crossed for Bayern, and John Paul II was for Cracovia. In the monastery, are you watching games in solitude?

– I usually watch games myself, but mostly for practical reasons. I turn on the match, unfold the ironing board and combine business with pleasure. Also, I hate watching a game when someone interrupts silly or incompetent comments. For the same reason, I rarely go to the movies. I don’t consider myself a football super expert, but I like to enjoy the game like watching a play in a theater. Just like a glass of cognac, you don’t drink it in one gulp. Occasionally, however, there are exceptions. To this day, I remember how in Italy, among Italians, I watched the World Cup final they won. It was unique! Collective respect for football! Until today I keep the edition of “La Gazetta dello Sport” from the next day. Such my fan “relic”.

In 2008, Cardinal Bergoglio, today’s Pope, celebrated the 100th anniversary of his favorite club San Lorenzo. Would you like to do something similar for Juventus, for example?

– I never even thought about it. This is not my league. One of my confreres tried his strength as the chaplain of Widzew fans, but after a few matches it fell apart. He tried to counteract the signs of aggression, but it quickly turned out that the Kibolsk identity turned out to be stronger than the Christian identity, and it did not work out.

Father adores Italians. Are you worried about your father’s statistics that football is becoming more popular in Italy than Catholicism and religious practices?

– It does not surprise me at all. It seems to me that it may be similar in Poland. Usually people are more concerned with down-to-earth passions than by deeply practicing religion. It is also not a reason for me to be jealous of competition.

But the masses are on Sundays and so are the matches. Sometimes you have to make a choice where to go.

– Reconciling these issues is only a matter of decision and logistical capacity.

This is a different statistic, in the Netherlands during Ruud van Nistelrooy’s heyday, people of him and Jesus were shown to random people. The footballer was recognized more often.

– It doesn’t really surprise me, but it contributes to evangelization.

Father would have doubts who would be more often recognized in Złote Tarasy, Lewandowski or Jesus?

– I don’t know … Please do some research and we’ll see. However, I do not think that recognition can beat that of Jesus in Poland.