Mr. Andrzej became a drag queen in his seventies. “It’s never too late for anything in life”

Wiktor Krajewski: Do you want me to call you Andrzej? Or maybe you prefer Lulla? Who is closer to you?

Andrzej Szwan: Talk to me however you feel comfortable. I try never to impose that someone should call me only Andrzej or only Lulla. These two names function interchangeably in my life. There are moments when I feel more like Lulla, and there are moments when Andrzej comes to the fore.

– Can you call me Mrs. Lullo?

You can, of course, but you laugh at it yourself, which means it sounds pretentious. I think that the approach like in the West, where you immediately switch to you, is nicer. I am very much in favor of being called by my name or nickname.

– What does it depend on that sometimes you feel more like Lulla and sometimes more like Andrzej?

Lulla needs people around her, an audience, a stage, a moment when everyone’s eyes are on her. The audience is crucial to Lulla’s existence, it makes her feel more confident and free. It feeds on the energy of others, but it is not about sucking energy, but about mutual exchange. I give something to the people gathered around, and they give something to me. Lulla La Polaca does not like being alone with herself, in silence, in the comforts of home, away from the world. Andrzej Szwan likes this. He also copes much better with everyday situations when he needs to do something, go to the store, or pay bills. I won’t say to the clerk at the window: “Darling, you have in front of you the oldest drag queen in Poland, so please call me Lulla La Polaca, because that’s my stage name!” It would be grotesque and I know that some people might make you feel uncomfortable.

So in official situations I am Andrzej Szwan, and on stage I play Lulla La Polaca. The prose of life is Andrzej’s world, and tinsel, sequins and glitter – Lulla’s world.

– So Lulla is a mask you hide behind?

Rather, it’s a coat or armor that I put on to spice up my everyday life, add more vivid colors, some kind of courage or bravado. Because if we look at life, there is nothing to hide: for most of us it is boring. And it’s up to us whether we spice it up or give it some claw. All you need are a few simple ingredients – people, conversations, meetings, art – and suddenly this boring life takes on flavor, and we want to stuff ourselves with it in spoons.

But back to Lulla – it’s not like this character is always in the lead. I treat Lulla and Andrzej very fairly. At the Powszechny Theater during rehearsals for the play “Orlando. Biographies”, the entire team, apart from the directors Paweł Łysak and Paweł Sztarbowski, called me Lulla. In turn, the director Agnieszka Błońska once said: “Lulla, today we are trying like this”, and sometimes that we had to do something as Andrzej. This is cool, because she was supposedly addressing two people, but she was talking to the same one.

Each of us has a dual nature to some extent, and depending on the occasion, one side comes to the surface and the other disappears. Andrzej does not function without Lulla, and Lulla does not function without Andrzej. These are connected vessels. Two entities locked in one body like Siamese twins. Because we cannot be separated and treated separately. We give each other strength and drive, we give each other a kick not to collapse and to act.

Mr. Andrzej became a drag queen in his seventies. ‘It’s never too late for anything in life’ ZNAK Publishing House

– Isn’t this called “multiple personality”?

A home-grown psychologist and editor, I see.

– No psychologist, I’m teasing you. I want to throw you off balance a little so that you show your true colors.

We are sitting in my apartment in Targówek, on the thirteenth floor. You see me in a T-shirt and slippers. I’m not wearing an ounce of makeup. I don’t have a wig. No tulles, no boas, no furs, no feathers. I don’t even have an earring. And I could have it! You probably can’t see a more real Andrzej or Lulla. I’m in the sauté version.

– My friend, who has spent his whole life in Paris, is very irritated by the fact that in Poland we use the term sauté, meaning no makeup. In French slang this word means “fucked”… Are you laughing! Is it Andrzej or Lulla smiling?

Both Lulla and Andrzej are trying to remember when they last sautéed. But this is not the time for such confidences yet. There will be a time for everything. (…)

– Lulla, you are the embodiment of the fact that it is never too late for anything in life, that sometimes you just have to wait.

Mike Urbaniak, in the podcast for “Vogue Polska”, to which I was invited, said a very beautiful sentence: “A real career begins after the age of seventy.” And I had no choice but to sign this statement with both hands. I would also sign with my legs, but I don’t know if I would be able to raise them that high.

Lulla as a stage character was born from my great love for art and from the dreams that have been dormant in me since I was a young girl, a child not yet aware that there is such a term as “drag queen”. Fortunately, these dreams they became a reality that gave my life a new rhythm. I made it in my old age! I believe that it is worth waiting for some dreams to come true – they are so refined and pampered.

– Although you are now one of the most famous Polish drag queens, you started your professional career at the age of seventy. Tell us how this happened.

It was 2008. I went to see drag queen Kim Lee perform at the Galeria club in Hala Mirowska in Warsaw. I was enchanted by her talent, so after the show I talked to her at the bar. I told her that sometimes we organize dress-up parties with friends, put on women’s clothes and call each other by female names. We exchanged phone numbers and in a few days Kim called me and asked me to visit her in her dressing room in Grochów. I went and there was literally a hangar filled with high heels, dresses, wigs, jewelry… Heaven! A real costume paradise on earth! Since then, I have visited her often, and Kim told me the secrets of her stage image. She contributed to my debut on stage as Lulla La Polaca.

Mr. Andrzej became a drag queen in his seventies. ‘It’s never too late for anything in life’ Mr. Andrzej became a drag queen in his seventies. ‘It’s never too late for anything in life’ // PHOTO. MAREK ZIMAKIEWICZ

– What was your first performance like?

I then appeared alongside Kim. It was 2012, so several years have passed since our first meeting. I organized a name day party at Magda and Marek Rytych’s. Magda is a television editor and Marek is an architect. Their apartment has a spiral staircase leading to the second floor. We decided to use them for a performance and we walked down them like stars of a Parisian revue. As a duet, we sang a hit from Maria Koterbska’s repertoire “Throw a penny into the jukebox”. Our audience, i.e. the Rytych family’s friends and my name day guests, had a great time. At one point, Kim got my friend Ika dancing. And the girls were having so much fun that Ika she sprained her ankle.

– How did you feel when you performed alongside a drag star for the first time?

Like a real diva. I still have a framed photo of us together from that evening.

– It wasn’t just one performance, you and Kim Lee created a great duo.

Kim provided me with great support at the beginning of my stage adventure. She was always there. Behind the scenes. Behind the curtain. She was waiting backstage and kept her fingers crossed for me, because initially before leaving I felt a lot of stress, mixed with happiness and fulfillment. Knowing that Kim was my fairy godmother who I could always count on reassured me.

– You even had a show together.

In Kalinowe Serc in Żoliborz. Kim brought a couple of her friendly drag queens on stage. We staged the Lulla Show there a few times. We had to cancel the last one due to the pandemic. And then Kim got sick with Covid and died… I felt then that I had lost a real friend, and the world of drag would be – at least for some time – very empty without her smile and good heart.

– So Kim Lee wasn’t just your fairy godmother?

Still, when I perform, I instinctively look backstage and realize that Kim is no longer with us. She probably didn’t even expect how many people – including me – would miss her, think about her, remember her. Kim did a lot of work for the drag community, put all her energy and time into it, even though she didn’t have to. She had a social element in her. Following her example, I try to show kindness to my colleagues and I hope that I succeed. Before the performance, I support them with an anecdote or a kind word. Hugging me and saying: “Don’t be nervous” doesn’t cost me anything, but it can give someone courage and self-confidence. You have to help others relieve stress. I know perfectly well how many nerves all this costs.